Boat Cam: Scott Beach

We have heard some complaints recently about non-Caneel guests being told to get off this beach.

You can’t cross private property to get to it, but if you’re coming by boat, there’s nothing preventing you from enjoying this beach.

Take a hassle-free look, below!

34 Responses to “Boat Cam: Scott Beach”

1. Carib Mark
   March 22nd, 2010 06:13
   1

   More of a distant glance.

2. Debbie
   March 22nd, 2010 06:30
   2

   I have to tell you that Scott beach is a nice beach. When we stayed at Caneel, years ago, it had a small population of turtles. Just remember, there are many more beautiful beaches on the island! In my opinion, I think Solomon and Honeymoon are #1 and Cinnamon is a close #2.
   Happy Monday!
   Rainy and 60 degrees in New Jersey today.

3. Charles
   March 22nd, 2010 09:01
   3

   The people who spend more than a grand a night to enjoy the beauty and solitude of Caneel Bay Resort are understandably upset when boaters and kayakers noisily invade Scott Beach and act like they’ve landed in Atlantic City or Ocean City, MD. There are many free access beaches throughout the island that are more than adequate for you. Please keep your distance from the seven at Caneel. Hotel guests are asked to call Security whenever the Resort’s property is used by non-paying outsiders!

4. J. Lowe
   March 22nd, 2010 09:02
   4

   Good morning from a very dreary and soggy Freehold NJ. Needed that to brighten up the day. Thank you. Close to nailing down our days for November of this year.

5. LaurenandMike
   March 22nd, 2010 09:15
   5

   Yes..definitely from a distance. We went by Scott Beach on our boat a few months ago. We prefer the more lush, less open feel of Hawksnest (my favorite) and Maho (Mike’s favorite). Coming back April 8th..can’t wait. Maybe we will check it out! Also in NJ, and very happy it’s not snowing!

6. Gary
   March 22nd, 2010 09:38
   6

   Charles,
   By VI law all beaches are public. Also I highly doubt any locals would act like they were in Atlantic City. Not our style. Personally, I don’t even care for Atlantic City. If you stay at Caneel and some locals show up on the beach you should get to know them. We’re a pretty nice bunch and can offer you insight to the island.

7. Marcia
   March 22nd, 2010 09:58
   7

   I was under the impression that one could pay the $10.00 fee at the Caneel gate and have access to all of the beaches there. (With the $10 being a credit then for food/beverages at Caneel.) Is this inaccurate?

8. Paul
   March 22nd, 2010 10:33
   8

   Marcia,
   I believe the $10 per head daily fee covers use of the main beach (Caneel) facilities and probably walking over to Honeymoon only. The other beaches are still reserved for resident guests, and I have even observed security officers ask day visitors not to walk around the property. Of course, the Caneel Beach restaurant, snack bar and the Equator restaurant are available to outside non-guests for hefty prices.

   Scott Beach is what management considers adults only, and even the children of guests (8 years and younger) are restricted from staying there or using the beach. It’s been my experience that the regular Scott Beach group is a bit stuffy, to say the least, and are willing to pay premium prices for peace and quiet. The other Caneel beaches have no such restrictions.

9. Carib Mark
   March 22nd, 2010 11:59
   9

   No matter what beach you go to, you can always run into people who have no respect for others or the beach. I’ve picked up trash at Trunk that cruise people must’ve figured they were paying someone to pick up, and I’ve also shared the shade of trees with strangers at Hawksnest. But yes, all of the island’s beaches are open to all, the trick is, sometimes the property between you and that beach isn’t as with some beaches at Caneel. If it weren’t for Caneel and it’s founder, Mr. Rockefeller, setting aside park land, lord knows what this island would be like. We can all have our spots, we can all share and we can all respect. We can even respect Charles even if we don’t see eye to eye with his opinions. Days are too few, the beaches are many, smile and enjoy.

10. mary beth
    March 22nd, 2010 12:22
    10

    Lovely!

11. mike
    March 22nd, 2010 12:39
    11

    So apparently paying a “grand” a night allows you to make new laws… or just make them up like Charles.

    Just makes ya want to go hang out on that beach and wait to get hassled by the security people who have no right to hassle you doesn’t it?

12. Laura
    March 22nd, 2010 12:54
    12

    Well said Carib Mark- well said! And thanks to Paul for the warning about kids on Scott- we usually have our little hoodlums with us so I will make sure to steer clear next time we’re out with Captain Brandi…. they prefer doing back flips off the boat anyway

13. Laura
    March 22nd, 2010 12:56
    13

    PS- Gary – I agree getting to know the locals is the best way to spend a day at the beach… or at Skinny’s, or anywhere for that matter….. makes for a MUCH better trip.

14. Lovango Larry
    March 22nd, 2010 13:47
    14

    Charles–

    Nice attitude you have there…just for your stuffy and snotty response I hope a boatload of noisy jerks ruins your next day there (not that I’ve ever run into that on STJ). The beaches are all open to the public, as long as you arrive by boat. So take your “please keep your distance from the 7 at Caneel” and “more than adequate for you” attitude and stuff it! Oh, by the way, I’ve stayed at Caneel, too, Chucky Pompous! What a tool…

15. SteveV
    March 22nd, 2010 14:10
    15

    If I’m ever fortunate enough to revist St. John and am doubly fortunate to book a tour with Captain Brandi… does he play that hip music on his boat? Is it his official theme music? If it isn’t, it should be…

16. MikeS
    March 22nd, 2010 14:45
    16

    Suffice it to say, that if all people obeyed the actual law then the guests at Caneel wouldn’t mind when people pull up in boats or kayaks … A couple years back I was at Turtle beach and a about a half dozen people showed up by foot with about a half dozen kids lugging beach chairs, coolers, and of course the obligatory boom box. The guests didn’t say a word until the interlopers decided it was time to act like they owned the joint.

    Regardless, even if you are a paying guest there are rules of respectful behavior that should be followed.

    I think the Caneel guests behave more favorably to people than that crazy Gibney lady that will flatten your tires if you park in front of her house … on a public road.

17. Ruth
    March 22nd, 2010 18:46
    17

    Ummmm…..Charles is kidding, right?

18. snobhater
    March 23rd, 2010 05:46
    18

    If charles is hangin out at caneel, im changing my plans and going to hang out with snookie at the jersey shore.

19. Suds
    March 23rd, 2010 08:45
    19

    Dear Mr.Charles,

    Perhaps you have seen the movie Caddy Shack with Ted Knight- “YOU! YOOUU!!! a lil’ bit O Briar Bush attitude here.

    IMHO the irritation you express is merely a symptom of an underlying problem.

    Have a nice day.

    Suds

20. Rich
    March 23rd, 2010 09:56
    20

    VIC T12 §402 : Open beaches and shorelines; shorelines defined

    (a) It is hereby declared and affirmed that the public, individually and collectively, has and shall continue to have the right to use and enjoy the shorelines of the United States Virgin Islands as “United States Virgin Islands” is defined in section 2(a) of the Revised Organic Act of the United States Virgin Islands.

    (b) For the purposes of this chapter “shorelines of the United States Virgin Islands” shall mean the area along the coastlines of the United States Virgin Islands from the seaward line of low tide, running inland a distance of fifty (50) feet; or to the extreme seaward boundary of natural vegetation which spreads continuously inland; or to a natural barrier; whichever is the shortest distance. Whenever the shore is extended into the sea by filling or dredging, the boundary of the shorelines shall remain at the line of vegetation as previously established.

    VIC T12 § 403. Obstruction of shorelines prohibited

    No person, firm, corporation, association or other legal entity shall create, erect, maintain, or construct any obstruction, barrier, or restraint of any nature whatsoever upon, across or within the shorelines of the United States Virgin Islands as defined in this section, which would interfere with the right of the public individually and collectively, to use and enjoy any shoreline.
    ______________

    The “GUESTS ONLY” signs all along Caneel property are a bluff for the people who don’t know the law. Caneel can put up all the signs they want and security will sometimes lie to you, but they know full well that they can’t stop you if you want to use the beaches.

    Also the $10 is a parking fee not a “per person” fee and it can be applied towards food or drink on property.

    Get all the law here:
    http://www.michie.com/virginislands/lpExt.dll?f=templates&eMail=Y&fn=main-h.htm&cp=vicode/414b/447f

21. ajr
    March 23rd, 2010 11:54
    21

    Excuse me, Rich, while you are able to quote the Open Shorelines Act, you are having some problems interpreting it. The public can use the shoreline to the vegetation, or 50 ft. from low tide, whichever comes first You cannot put a fence across a beach. This in no way gives you any right to cross private land to access a shoreline. Caneel remains private property. The $10 is a parking fee, NOT a beach fee. Like most of St. John, the existing parking rather suddenly became ludicrously inadequate when the tourist volume increased by roughly 500% in the past 12 years. As a St. Johnian, I don’t like it, and I think the big sign out at the road is as tacky as all get-out, but i will defend their right to do it–maybe not to the death, but…
    By the way, it is a little too late to invoke the name of Laurance Rockefeller in connection with Caneel–it is now 24 years since he sold the property, and much of his vision is being ignored on principle by the current management.

22. Rich
    March 23rd, 2010 14:54
    22

    Ajr, no problem at all. If there is some problem in the interpretation then let’s see if we can clarify.

    You stated, “You cannot put a fence across a beach. This in no way gives you any right to cross private land to access a shoreline. Caneel remains private property.”

    The VI Code states “No…corporation…shall create, erect, maintain, or construct any obstruction, barrier, or restraint of any nature….which would interfere with the right of the public individually and collectively, to use and enjoy any shoreline.” (editing mine)

    Your interpretation is not supported by the code in any fashion. If your property borders a beach on on sides then you must allow the public to access the beach. The code doesn’t specify “how” but it does specify that you “must.” So, Caneel can mark a foot path through it’s property that leads directly from the road (or parking area) to the beach and that would satisfy the law. They are also free to use the system they use now which is entirely legal.

    They are not denying access to the beaches. They might be discouraging beach goers but they are not preventing them. If you were to deny access to a beach in the VI you would be in direct violation of this statute.

    You don’t have to take my word for it either. This law has been enforced countless times in VI courts and zoning hearings. If you are still in doubt that my interpretation is incorrect, you can call the DPNR, Division of Coastal Zone Management at 340-774-3320. Since this is an often misunderstood section of the law, they have even provided a factsheet:

    http://czm.dpnr.gov.vi/documents/Beach_Access_Brochure.pdf

23. Clairemarie
    March 23rd, 2010 17:59
    23

    I found out something interesting in February. Caneel rents from the national park. And I think their lease is up for renewal this year.

24. ajr
    March 23rd, 2010 18:11
    24

    Again, you are using some fast and loose interpretations of your own. The VI CZM program requires that the permitting of any NEW, COMMERCIAL development include land access to any beachfront. While Caneel is certainly commercial, it most definitely is not new. If they were to seek permitting of, say, 100 more rooms on Turtle Bay Point, the government would require access as a condition of issuing the permit. Needless to say, this is a deterrent, and that’s a good thing.
    Hence: Botany Bay on St. Thomas now has public access, but you still have to pay $3 or so to walk down Miss Vie’s path on East End.
    The US constitution forbids the taking of private land for public use without just compensation. The VI Open Shorelines Act, when it was passed in the 1970s, was not signed into law by Governor Evans, because it violates the constitution. Most VI shorelines were, and still are, owned to LOW water by the abutting land owner.
    The illegality of the Act was not challenged due to the extremely volatile political and racial situation in the VI in the 70s. I am not trying to pick a fight, just reporting the facts.

25. ajr
    March 23rd, 2010 18:20
    25

    Addendum for ClaireMarie– Caneel was given to the VINP by Laurance Rockefeller before he sold the hotel in the 1980s. There was a 40 year retained interest that is up in- I believe- 2022. There have already been long negotiations regarding the future of the hotel, which is a major employer– I believe still the largest private employer in St. Thomas/St. John. While the NPS will certainly be more actively involved in the future,that wouldn’t be difficult–there’s been practically no involvement in recent years.

26. snobhater
    March 23rd, 2010 21:37
    26

    AJR/Rich

    Dont Worry Be Happy.
    AJR – When I need a good attorney I’ll call you.

    Cheers

27. Charles
    March 23rd, 2010 22:15
    27

    So, after all that, the bottom line is just where we began: If you can’t stay at Caneel as a paying guest, please stay the hell away from Scott Beach. Thank you!

28. Paul
    March 24th, 2010 07:44
    28

    Charles, you are a pompous ass! But we respect your right to express your opinions and opposing views. Please keep reading this daily blog and you will hopefully learn more about St. John, it’s people and, most importantly, their attitude of friendship and openmindedness. Believe me–it’s contagious!

    There is a quality of life beyond the borders of Caneel Bay Resort. Good luck!

29. Debra
    March 24th, 2010 08:37
    29

    John – how dare you shoot a video of Scott Beach – did you check with Charles first???!!!

30. Laura
    March 24th, 2010 22:10
    30

    wow. The reason I love STJ so much and the reason we come back again and again is the openness, inclusiveness and positive attitudes of the locals and visitors Paul talks about. Glad I have not run into anything else in all of my years visiting……

31. Clairemarie
    March 25th, 2010 07:43
    31

    The main beach at Caneel is beautiful. Sometimes you see deer or donkeys on the grassy area on the right. My favorite beach is Maho, but there isn’t a bathroom or a bartender there. However, the employees at Caneel are downright evil, especially the watersports manager. You are told you cannot sit in the shade, as it is too close to the rooms. You cannot put up an umbrella because it is a nesting beach-but their guests can dig in the sand all they want. My son brought a popup tent and they blew a gasket! It was kind of comical seeing them run down the beach. I wonder what they could have “done” to us if we refused to collapse it? A little help here, ajr, Rich? As we were on no man’s land?

32. MaineJim
    March 27th, 2010 16:10
    32

    With so much discussion of laws and regulations, its worth noting that our camera toting buddy who made the video … went inside the posted No Swim Zone off Scott Beach. I see this kind of disregard for No Swim Zones by boaters on a regular basis. Not good.

33. Kathleen
    March 27th, 2010 20:43
    33

    I own and operate a six person day charter boat. I am one of several people lodging complaints toward Caneel Bay in regard to Scott Beach. The Beach Act of 1978 is very clear. Access to ALL beaches in the Virgin Islands are to be made public, from the land and from the sea. Period. Up to the high water mark or vegetation line, whichever comes first. If it was not law, clearly, there could not be much in the way of complaints… no leg to stand on, so to speak. While there are many beaches to enjoy on St John, at times, due to rough conditions, Scott beach is the go to destination for it’s usually calm conditions. I have had even more serious problems with Caneel than some, as one of my guests was assaulted by a supposed Caneel guest on Paradise Beach when I was picking up by dinghy in knee deep water (he could not climb my boat’s swim ladder due to physical disability). Following police reports, insurance reports, National Park reports and a letter I wrote to the Caneel Bay GM…. I heard from everyone, excepting the Caneel Bay GM. No acknowledgement. So, I have been having conversations with the National Park on and off for a few years about Caneel Bay Resort practices. The Park has tried to be helpful and supportive. In addition, every Ranger I have spoken to has reinforced our right to access of the beaches in the Virgin Islands. Until about two to three years ago, there were red and green markers indicating the dinghy channel to Scott Beach. Those marks disappeared and in talking with the Park, I discovered that Caneel Bay is responsible for their replacement. Regardless, it is still a channel, even if the marks are there or not. Therefore, the camera man of the pictures of Scott may not have been in the “boat exclusion zone” area at all. He could have been in the channel. Please note, on the beach where the channel ends, there is a sign welcoming visitors to the beach and stating that all chairs, lounges, etc. are for Caneel Bay guests only. No problem. My guests and I respect this completely. The sign is for visitors to the beach, another words, us. Some of the Park Rangers have told me they expected the channel marks to have been replaced by now. It hasn’t happened. In fact, due to recent events and growing complaints, Mr Williams of the Justice Department is now involved and investigating. By the way, the only infringement of boaters in the swim areas at Scott I have seen, have been by either some of the bare boat rentals (not many swim area markers left in the area) or by the Caneel Bay chase boat itself. On numerous occasions, the Caneel runabout has raced through the moorings and into the swim areas with no apparent regard for safety. And the Kayaks? Isn’t that a nature excursion that is available to the public but originates in Caneel Bay?

34. Ken P.
    May 1st, 2010 10:53
    34

    I’ve been doing research on both STJ & STT for a while in anticipation of an extended vacation sometime in the future. After reading all these replies I now know where I will not be staying when that time comes.

    Based on $1000 a night Caneel has just lost about $30,000…

    No joke.

    Charles,

    It would better serve your interests in Caneel Bay Resort to tone down your replies. Remember the internet is a very big place and the entire world is watching you.

    Have a nice day.

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